Submitted without comment.
Submitted without comment.
Submitted without comment.
Let me just start off here with this…. Its the spending stupid … Its how everyone should be looking at the “fiscal cliff” debate. But because we are allowing progressives who hate free markets and capitalism to define the debate, here goes.
MPR’s DFL talking point regurgitation series “Poligraph” is out with its latest volley to help the Democrats appear credible. In the latest installment, they bend over backwards to bail Amy Klobuchar out for her cut and paste progressive talking points / ambulance chaser approach to being a public official. MPR is bailing Klobuchar out on the Democrat talking point that just raising taxes on “the rich” will solve the budget mess.
In a recent interview on ABC’s This Week, Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-MN, talked about the so-called fiscal cliff. She pointed out that the Senate had already passed a plan that would extend the Bush-era tax cuts for those making less than $250,000 and eliminate them for those making more than that.
The proposal would take a big chunk out of the nation’s deficit, she said.
Not true. We’re running trillion dollar deficits nationally. “Big dent”? More like tiny drop.
“As you know, if we go back to the Clinton levels for people making over $250,000 we literally save $1 trillion in 10 years,” she said.
One trillion is in the ballpark.
This ponzi scheme of a political debate is based on the Democrat’s secret weapon, the 10 year budgeting guidelines. Its the practice of taking a single year’s line item and assuming that you can bank it each and every year. It also is very handy in helping deflect factual analysis of the overall proposals. People get confused by large numbers. Wow, you can take “nearly a trillion dollars from the rich and it will cut one trillion off the deficit? Let’s just do it already!”
Sounds so lovely, doesn’t it? Wave your magic wand and the Trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see goes away. No more racking up debt, and wall of a sudden Amy Klobuchar grabs the wheel of the tour bus racing toward the fiscal cliff. jerks it hard left, averts the fiscal cliff entirely. Everything is good….
Its sad, but I bet many reporters in America see Klobuchar and Obama as some sort of socialist super heroes.
MPR even goes so far as to throw in a Democrat talking point that Klobuchar left out.
Still, the plan stands to lower the nation’s deficit, according to a recent report by the Congressional Budget Office, the non-partisan number-crunching arm of Congress.
They are using the Democrat logic that when Democrats want to increase a budget by 20% but them dang Republicans will only let it increase by 8% its a draconian cut to the bone.
Let’s be clear here. This tax increase Amy Klobuchar is pushing amounts to $82.4 billion a year in tax revenue. Let me do the math for you. MPR claims it will bring in $824 Billion over 10 years, so that is $82.4 Billion a year. Well if we are running Trillion dollar deficits and we cut 82.4 billion out of them, that’s an eight percent fix.
Meaning that over the next ten years, instead of adding $10 Trillion to the national debt, we’re only going to add $9.917 Trillion to the national debt if we just make them dangnamit rich people pay their fair share.
What was the Federal Deficit this year? Well over a trillion. You see, when playing with numbers as large as we are, a billion sounds huge, 82.4 sounds enormous, and 824 billion sounds like the solution, but…..
Since Amy Klobuchar was sworn in as a United States Senator, the Federal Budget has added almost $6 Trillion in deficit spending to the debt all by itself. This excludes all the unfunded liabilities and other things… ($5,951,974,000,000)
If her dream of a more progressive tax rate had come true and there was a return to the Clinton tax rates, and we would have booked the $82.4 Billion a year…… $82.4 Billion over six years = $494 Billion.
$5,951,974,000,000 – $494,000,000,000 = $5,457,974,000,000
We’d still have racked up $5.5 Trillion is federal deficit spending under Amy Klobuchar’s first term had the Bush tax cuts for “the Rich” been repealed as Amy Klobuchar had said she’d make happen way back in her 2006 campaign.
Why, yes, we still would have been running record deficits. Which is hard to believe if you pay attention to the Democrat talking points.
Oddly since Democrats took control of the US House & Senate in 2007 (AHEM same year that Amy Klobuchar was first elected), the deficits have skyrocketed. But revenue has been on a relatively steady pace, give or take a few hundred billion every year, but spending has increased exponentially after Clinton.
Its the spending stupid.
And yes, this spending happened under Bush, when he was trying to be compassionate and appeal to and work with Democrats. The key is, Spending is increasing at rates far greater than under any other President in modern times.
In 2001 the Federal Budget spent $1.86 Trillion.
In 2011 the Federal Budget spent $3.6 Trillion
If we as a nation are going to rely on Government spending, we are ALL going to have to pay. If you took every dime from “the Rich” you’d only solve the problem for a year, then what?
To avoid the Fiscal Cliff, we must stop adding to the debt. That means not just balancing the budget, but running a surplus to start paying off the debt. Klobuchar is talking about $82.4 billion solving a trillion dollar problem. That’s an 8% drop in the bucket. If we can just keep transferring the national debt balance from one credit card to the other, maybe in 200 more years, that 8% increase in revenue can pay off the debt or something.
All things aside4, let’s just get back tot he math of this whole ponzi scheme.
$17 Trillion National Debt / $82.4 Billion = 206 years for the added revenue to come close to paying off the current national debt.
The numbers don’t lie. What Amy Klobuchar is suggesting as the cure for the fiscal cliff would take 206 years to solve. I don’t think we can wait that long.
MPR accidently gives us the info to prove the only way to avert the fiscal cliff while avoiding any spending cuts is to raise taxes across the board.
If tax cuts are extended for everyone, it would cost about $4.5 trillion. […]
Whoops, they accidently admitted that the Bush tax cuts did actually aid more than just the rich, and the lion’s share of the “lost federal revenue” went to people outside “the rich”. $3.7 Trillion of tax cuts went to people earning less than $250,000 a year. But you have had it drummed into your head the last 8 years how those Bush tax cuts only went to the rich. Klobuchar’s friends in Washington and allies in the media even went so far as to tell you that in order for the rich to get their tax cuts, the poor had to suffer.
Let’s look at the chart again. According to the White House, the lowest deficit in an Obama budget is $609 Billion. Meaning that even IF Klobuchar and he raised taxes on the rich, we’d still be running over a half a trillion in debt which is added to the national debt, which makes me wonder how a fact checking media outlet can say that this notion actually reduces debt. Oh wait, it reduces the expected increase…..
[…] But if they are extended for those falling in lower tax brackets, it would cost the government $3.7 trillion.
Let’s circle back to this here. If the Bush tax cuts which “cost” the federal government $4.5 Trillion would ever have happened, Bush would have run surpluses in almost every year. Of course this assumes lots of things, like these tax cuts not being responsible for ending the dot com 2001 recession among other things…..
In the 10 years of the Bush tax cuts, using Democrat and MPR verbiage, we’ve lost $450 Billion a year in revenue. If you go and add $450 Billion a year in revenue to the Bush years, we would have actually cut the debt. Again, this is odd, since we are being told by Amy Klobuchar that cutting taxes on “the rich” is what got us into this mess, yet if a deal isn’t reached, taxes on millions are going to be going up on January 1st.
They said that only the rich got tax cuts all through the Bush years. Amy Klobuchar made that the corner stone of her 2006 campaign. Yet, not only do we now see hundreds of billions of dollars in tax cuts to all levels of wage earners, that “the rich” actually got a small portion of the tax cut compared to the lower and middle class. Amy I calling her a liar, well, the math supports that notion.
You cannot fool the math
This entire debate over the fiscal cliff, or the so-called facts of the debate over the fiscal cliff, are all being waged on the revenue side of the ledger sheet. We’re being hood winked into thinking the problem is simply a matter of taxes and marginal rates. Marginal rates, like the kind that affect only 1 or 2 % of the public, which no one really can relate to, and that are very easy to blame and create public angst toward. Its the classic communist revolution ploy of pitting the haves vs. the have nots. But the real problem with the fiscal cliff is that we are piling on debt with no end in sight. The only way to actually avert going over the cliff is to pay down the debt.
Do I need to go over the math again? How an 8% reduction in a trillion deficit will take 200 years to close?
America is approaching the fiscal cliff based on liabilities, not year to year budgetary line items (discretionary spending & pork) and political battles over marginal income tax rates. We owe as a nation than we are worth, and have bills coming due with no foreseeable way to pay. America is under water financially.
Remember that line from Obama about spreading the wealth around? This tax increase isn’t really about the fiscal cliff. Heck, like Minnesota Democrats, whether in surplus or deficit, they have always wanted to create a new 4th tier income tax on “the rich”. Each and every year, they want to do the same thing. Take away from some and give to others.
But we’re being told its to solve the fiscal cliff nightmare…..
Democrats want to adjust the deficit numbers by changing the digit in the far right of the numbers when we need to go from running deficits to running surpluses. The only true way to avoid the fiscal cliff is to turn the car around and drive away from the cliff.
I’ve heard one person say recent;y, what the compromise will look like is $100 Billion in new taxes, $100 billion in spending cuts, but they fail to address how we are still going to add $8 to 9 trillion to the debt over 10 years….
All Amy Klobuchar and MPR seem inclined to do is take the 1.1 Trillion pound brick off the accelerator and replace it with a 1.017.6 Trillion pound brick.
Marginal rates and tinkering on the wrong side of the ledger sheet is not going to fix anything.
Wake up America. We have a huge spending problem. Look at Europe. What Democrats have suggested has been tried before. Its failed there and it will fail here.
US retailers report weakest holiday sales since 2008
We all have been feeling it. Something wasn’t right. They kept saying in the news that the economy was back, that shoppers were out in force, that everything was ok and people were thrilled Obama was reelected.
But people aren’t out there shopping, they are looking for something for nothing. Seeking out huge deals and only showing up for the loss leaders, not big ticket items at full retail. We’re the discount bin nation now. We have learned patience. Why buy something at full price that will be obsolete today when you can get it next week at 40%?
Add to that the awakening on how bad the fiscal mess in Washington is, Americans are finally realizing that the chickens of the great society are finally coming home to roost. The average Joe’s out there on the street are starting to dig down to see the truth, not the spoon fed lies of the media, to see that the next few years are going to be very VERY bad for America.
Obamacare is coming to tax us to “health”. Obama’s scam payroll tax credit is ending, and rightly so as that was money not going to the Social Security Fund. Income taxes are going to go up. Businesses will not be looking at wage or benefit increases with all the red tape and added costs thanks to Obama.
Let’s also not overlook that not all electoral capitulation was done in Washington, in Minnesota Democrats rode the socialist GOTV wave to winning single party rule of all levels of Government. uHaul is now the busiest business in Minnesota as the question is not if taxes will be raised, but how how. Not if money will be wasted by the social engineers on trains and other useless stuff, but how many more billion dollar boondoggles that make traffic worse are going to be added..
Americans are finally looking in the mirror and realizing that the party is over, that the bills are going to come due. That this Christmas was not going to be on someone else’s credit card.
The stark reality Americans are facing is that the fiscal cliff is not located in Washington, and that the only way out of the mess created by promises made for votes cast is that literally everyone has to pay their fair share.
As I have pointed out, even if you took every penny away from the rich, you would only balance the budget for one year.
Merry Thriftmas America. Its a miracle. You woke up and you finally realized things aren’t all rosy, but it may be too late.
Whoops, too late.
Its almost like Nancy Pelosi is still Speaker.
Hey John, its the spending you idiot. You suck at poker, now stop trying to gamble with the future of our Country. You’re playing with socialists, solving the problem is not their goal, socialism is. They’ll take whatever you give them that’s closer to Communism than Capitalism, so give them nothing.
If you don’t have the spine to do so, resign. You’ve done enough damage already.
First off you need to know that she voted for the Medical Device Tax. It is part of Obamacare that she voted for and supports widely.
She’s now doing one of her ambulance chaser moves and trying to repeal part of a bill she voted for. IOW: She created the crisis she is now trying to fix.
But the big key is Amy Klobuchar is not really trying to repeal this bad part of Obamacare, she’s just trying to delay its implementation.
Meaning she doesn’t really oppose this awful tax increase on the medical device industry, she just wants to delay it until the fiscal cliff ponzi scheme can is kicked down the road.
If she really was against the tax on a critical Minnesota company, she’d fight for all out repeal of this punitive tax.
(Yes, I’m rather snarky today)
I promised to educate the public on just who the rich is since no one with an (R) behind the name has the cajones to dare stand up [FOR] the most discriminated class of people in America. (I was required to sit through a Fair Housing workshop yesterday, and yes, income status is a class that can’t be discriminated against. Whether low or high, you can’t treat people differently just because of their income.)
Here’s the chart I created to help show that the people making over $200,000 a year and not exclusively Bill Gates or Monty Burns. A large portion of the incomes in that top bracket Obama and Democrats so desperately want to
punish er – make pay their fair share, are not people just hoarding cash to use as toilet paper or to burn for heat because they are greedy fat cats.
They are employers, investors, successful people who worked hard and being rewarded from smart investments…. They are every day Americans who lay a huge role in keeping the economy going.
The key is they are the backbone to our economy. Yes, we need workers, but if there is no one to finance or supply the machines or tools….
Take away “the rich’s” incomes and it will affect the economy, more importantly it will remove any incentive for them to consider doing that again. If everything you worked for was taken away from you would you try to do it again, and again, and again?
This chart shows where the incomes in the top bracket actually come from. The data is from 2009 IRS numbers. Individuals, Farmers, S-Corps, Social Security, Investments, pensions, you name it. All play a significant role in the economy. The economy would collapse with out their incomes.
Take note at the bottom, that if you took every single penny that these people made in 2009 away from them, you’d barely be able to balance the Federal Budget for that one year. Keep in mind by the end of Obama’s 2nd term, we will need almost an additional $1 trillion more in revenue (taxes) just to keep pace with spending increases to balance the budget.
Meet the Rich.
If you took every single penny that “the rich” made in one single year, it would balance the budget for a single year.
Folks, the fiscal cliff is not sticking it to the rich. Its not a matter of socialist fairness and a workers revolution.
The Fiscal cliff is the bills of America surpassing the ability to pay. The housing market collapsed by the very same principles being promoted as the cure for the Federal Budget.
Sub-prime loans, cooking the books, interest only loans, gambling on your income going up at exponential rates so you can afford to double your payments in a handful of years….
Another great example is the dot com bubble. Politicians in Washington are not trying to solve the problem, they are trying to swindle you into thinking they are solving the problem.
Spending is what is causing the debt.
Its the spending stupid.
And here’s another great point thanks to Howard Dean. “The Truth is Everybody Needs to Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich.”
You want the spending, then EVERYONE is going to have to pitch in, because as I point out above, there isn’t enough to revenue to take away from the rich in order to keep up the high spending rates.
The narrative being used against Republicans is: “They are the party of the rich and won’t make them pay their fair share.” The Republican party, officials, and candidates have done a terrible job fighting back against that lie.
I’m going to leave the whole how much is fair and I think 1% of the population paying for 40% of Government argument alone for today and focus on the heart of the matter that Republicans need to spread far and wide.
The reason the national debt is sky rocketing and the deficits are growing is not low taxes, its high spending. Now Democrats are seeking a return to the Clinton era tax rates on the “wealthy”. They claim that was the last time we have a surplus.
There are 2 big problems with that argument.
Here’s a chart that I made to compare the actual numbers of Revenue and Expenditures from Clinton thru Obama.
(Click to enlarge)
The peak of Clinton Revenue (taxes) was in 2000 at $2.025 trillion. Again, that includes the dotcom bubble revenues. You can see that it was a 1 year $200 Billion increase from the previous year.
Just look at the numbers. Obama’s estimates for his next term are pipe dreams.
So what’s the point? Some conservatives and Republicans are throwing up their hands, saying its too late. The point is that Republicans have done a terrible job pointing out the course of the deficit problem, SPENDING.
Look no further than Europe to see that what Obama wants to do won’t work.
Ever expanding government through entitlements and rationed freedoms and a central planned economy where winners are picked based on feeling, emotion and willingness to help enact the political agenda of the left, not free markets – Societies like these eventually run their course. Growth stops, dependency skyrockets, and society is torn apart. Class warfare ensues, and civil unrest takes place.
Stalin was the key to creating the socialist Soviet Union. He tweaked Marxism to create a need for Government, a dependency on Government, that the only hope for everyone to have a shot of having basic necessities was if Government gave it to you.
We are at a fork in the road of America and Obama and his minions on the left know, they have the public convinced that it is not ok for you to go take what your neighbor worked hard to buy themselves, but don’t worry, the IRS will take their money away and Government will give you what you want.
Its like that old saying, “As soon as people realize they can just vote themselves more money, the Republic is lost.”
Of course the media is absent in reporting what is really going on. My suspicion is that because they like it.
This fiscal cliff in America is not coming on January 1st. Its not a crisis of just getting Republicans to cave on taxes. Grover Norquist’s demise will not mark the avoiding of the fiscal calamity.
It will be if we as a free people do fall for the ponzi scheme and promises of the socialist left and pretend that raising taxes on a few rich people will solve a budget crisis created entirely by skyrocketing spending. Spending that was promised decades ago by the first wave of socialist sympathizers in America.
It feels so good to just think that this is a one time rip the bandaid off and everything will be just fine fix. A one time bailout of the Federal Treasury and shazam! everything will be just fine. Government spending can continue to grow at will, and there will always be a 1% to take more away from to redistribute to the other 99%.
Spending is the thing that is going up at unsustainable rates. The only way to balance the budget with out serious spending reductions is huge tax increases.
You could take away every dime of income that the 1% have and it won’t even solve the budget deficit for one single year. In doing so you will have eliminated some of that 1% by bankrupting them and removing their ability to operate their businesses. Which means there will be less of the 1% to get that revenue from next year. Meaning the deficit will grow again and you are right back where you started, but now there are more people dependent on Government.
Obama wants $1.6 Trillion in new tax revenue over 10 years as his answer to the spending crisis. He and his core supporters like Keith Ellison refuse to even consider much needed reforms to the growing federal spending programs creating the deficits in the first place: entitlements.
Somehow taxing Peter to pay Paul is going to balance the budget?
But its for the public good. There is just so much good Friedman material…..
How did we get into the Big Government mess? Liberal do-gooders!
The fiscal cliff debates are about spending.
There is no Santa Claus coming with a big old sack of permanent revenue to bail out America. We spend too much bloody money. Senator Klobuchar is the new queen of do-gooders. She’s an ambulance chasing former County Attorney who is becoming the next Ralph Nader. For every economic action there is a reaction. Ban lead toys for kids, Polaris gets hurt. Require drain covers on pools, public pools close.
There’s always a reason to expand Government…
You can also always find someone you can make people hate and take away what they have to give to someone else. The problem is you eventually run out of other groups of people.
There is no free lunch.
I know some of you out there are saying, ok ok, there aren’t enough rich to make it work but we just can’t even think about cutting anything … and then you think: What about going after businesses for more revenue? Yeah, yeah, that’s got to be the ticket.
I have some bad new for you, there is no Santa Claus.
This is a long post/ Point it
Its the spending stupid. Spending is the reason our debt is so high. You can’t tax your way out of a spending problem.
The very things Obama and the media had to claim were not happening are now being used to make the case for Obama’s push for Stalinism.
We have no other choice but to surrender our liberty, freedoms, choice, but most importantly property to the Government so they alone can save this nation.
When Government controls the media, and the media agrees with Government… you get the idea but for 4 years we heard that Obama inherited this mess. the truth is that he maintained the mess, made it worse, all so he could get reelected then use it to force socialism upon the American people.
Everyone that believes they can simply hire Government to kick in their richer neighbor’s door and take their stuff away to give to you – will soon get a rude awakening. Your neighbor is already having a firesale and will soon make as much as you do.
Where will all that free stuff come from when the rich are no longer rich?
For many of the wealthy, 2012 is becoming a good year to sell.
They’re worried about the “fiscal cliff,” which is when tax cuts expire and spending cuts are set to go into effect at the end of the year.
Fearing an increase in capital gains and dividend taxes, many of the rich are unloading stocks, businesses and homes before the end of the year.
Wealth advisors say that with capital-gains taxes potentially going to 25 percent from 15 percent, and other possible increases in the dividend tax, estate tax and other taxes, many clients are selling now to save millions in taxes.
You don’t have any idea how devastating things like raising the estate tax will be. All it will do is create larger mega-conglomerates because family businesses will be forced to sell since upon death, the government demands half, and waiting in the wings is Warren Buffett to buy your parent’s business cheap.
I know it too late to stop, but I pray that everyone takes a mental picture of America right now. That all the people who came out in droves for those Obama phones or the free pizza when they voted for Obama, and realize that the America they want is impossible to achieve.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Those who you think make too much, can and will take home less to avoid the massive taxes required to pay for the entitlements and freebies you demand. The pool of the 1% you think can afford to pay more will shrink and the only way to confiscate enough tax revenue to pay for the largess is for those tax increases to trickle down to the middle class.
The exodus from the evil rich status has begun, soon even Hollywood will be selling short to avoid the pain of most of your hard work being taken away by Government and redistributed.
The real fiscal cliff America is facing is when there is no one left to pick up your tab.
What are Minnesotans who voted for Amy Klobuchar in 2006, Alex?
Minnesotans were promised that Amy Klobuchar would ask tough questions and she’d go get things done in 2006. Well here we are in 2012 and she is actually saying that in order for her to make good on her promises, we’ll have to give her another 6 year term (and over $1 million in salary btw) for her to begging working on the national debt.
I am not sure she ever gave a stump speech in 2006 with out hitting the line about how we’re paying billions a month in just interest on the national debt…. 6 years later and she says we just need to give her more time.